Latitude: Google’s Trojan Horse (or, Why Who’s Nearby Is Not A Business)

Andrew is the affable and uber-smart chap behind location based services company, Rummble. The service is described on the site frontpage thus:

The easiest way to find people and places nearby that you will like. A Rummble can be any place – restaurant, shop, photo opportunity, a favourite walk.

And you must definitely download the Rummble iPhone application. Find it in the App Store.

What, then, does Andrew think about Google’s latest Latitude addition to Google Maps? Well I strongly encourage you to get a cup of coffee, sit back and read this piece below. If you’re running a service with the words ‘mobile’, ’social’ and ‘network’ in it, I think Andrew’s perspective will be hugely relevant.

Over to Andrew:

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For the last 3 years now I’ve been crowing at conferences that “Who’s nearby” is not a business. I drew this conclusion from running playtxt, Europe’s first location-based mobile social network.

It started in 2002 and we had an Alpha launch in 2003. It was ridiculously early to market. Back in 2002 most normal people (i.e. those for whom a “tweet” today is still something only birds do) did not know what a social network was, let alone a mobile location-based social network. Thanks to MySpace, Facebook and the inevitable march of technology, even my own mother is now aware of social networking, SMS and GPS.

By 2005 Google had bought our main competitor Dodgeball and although the mobile operators were still charging for Cell ID lookups (ludicrously, they are STILL trying to!) I already believed it was only a matter of time before location became a commodity. It would too easy to do for start-ups to do and even easier for others such as Facebook, which was on its ascent.

I decided that “who’s nearby?” was never going to create a multi-million pound business and I made three predictions, some which are still relevant today:

* GPS will be in every phone as cameras were then becoming. (GPS chipsets are extremely cheap, power consumption is becoming lower, processing power higher and Galileo is on the horizon -literally, haha).
* One of the gorillas (Google, Yahoo et al) will release a free Cell ID/Location API. (Google have and its excellent).
* “Who’s nearby” will also become a commodity

For the last 2 years I’ve been telling any start-up which is building its own Cell ID database, that it must be mad. I see no business model. Google about as likely to charge for Cell ID lookup as it is for its maps API; and that likelihood is slim.

There was (and is) money to be made with tracking and Cell ID technology, but both industries begin with “S” and neither spell the world “Social”. Instead, it is Security (child tracking, staff tracking) and of course Sex (proximity dating, adult services); infact any vertical where a premium can be demanded – we know that fear and shagging both command strong emotions which can result in a buying decision. Wondering “Where are my friends?” does not; unless of course you’re intensely paranoid or have VERY accommodating friends.

There is no mobile internet: there is only the internet.

This has been my other crusade for the last 2 years; and this is probably what Google believes too. What I mean is, that fix-line world-wide-web access is the black & white TV of the internet. Amazing in itself, but without the full functionality of what we recognise as “television” today.

Location, portability and the need for personalisation (a mobile being such a small, personal device) are the three missing dwarfs which give us our Seven Dwarfs of the modern internet. (The first four were IMHO: the web browser as user interface, freedom to publish without government or minority corporate control, always-on fixed cost access, and broadband bandwidth; Snow White being the internet itself).

So in the near future (3-5years?) no one will talk of the “mobile” internet but simply, the internet. You will have an iphonesque device (in size & looks if not in O/S ;-) which you take home and plug into your 24″ screen and keyboard …we’ve still a decade to go before we type goodbye to Mr Qwerty and say hello to HAL.

Be under no delusion, Latitude is Googles Trojan horse into the social networking space.

After Googles purchase of Dodgeball it was clear they had every intention to roll out a service such as Latitude and they are perfectly positioned to do so.

Almost by-passing online social networking entirely (aside from Orkut which only took hold in Brazil) I believe Google will pursue a wide-reaching mobile social play. Google will build up a critical mass of users on Latitude; and they will join because:

* It is Google (so its trustworthy; yes still)
* It’s easy to use – simple UI and simple privacy model: Automatic, Manual or Hide your location (or as I prefer: Honest, Lie or Paranoia)
* It has reach (27 countries at launch, lots of handsets, no GPS required)
* It’s free

They will then likely launch an API (in the process solving some of the standardisation and interconnectivity problems – possibly using the new OAuth hybrid or equivalent) but also roll out other functionality enhancements. Although the latter may take longer than you think.

Latitude has lots wrong with it too e.g. Gmail import only (where is XFN Social Graph import or device address book comparison?) status update is crying out for Twitter integration and a hook into FireEagle (with which Latitude does not compete, yet) would all be very welcome (the last two are unlikely for political reasons but would be a fantastic nod to the open ecosystem) and don’t forget part of Latitude’s beauty is its simplicity; and Google have time on their side.

Many of us have been waiting for location-based services to come of age for YEARS! but in reality we’re still in the early adopter curve. In fact, I’d go even further than that. At BeingDigital in 2008 I stated on stage to a deluge of ridicule, that Social Networking wasn’t yet main stream. The laughing continued until I asked how many parents AND siblings of delegates had email? The answer was predictable: virtually everyone. Then I asked how many parents and siblings were also on a social network; over 75% of the hands dropped.

150 million people on Facebook is a lot, but 3.2 billion people have mobile phones: that’s a lot more. Email is mainstream, social networking is still maturing. Eventually it will of course become part of everything we do “online” rather than be a destination, with your social graph becoming portable and also actually owned by you, not FaceSpace.

So what does this all mean?

1) Location is already commodity AND your friends location will become a commodity. Any service will be able to plug in and use this data (with the right permissions). Its already happening – checkout Yahoo’s FireEagle which is an aggregator of location between services.

2) If you’re a start-up building LBS, Cell ID, friends nearby services, or anything else which is being commoditised as we speak, see above. Loopt; west coast startup run by a bright 24 year old entreprenuer – nice guy, flawed business plan. $13million+ in funding, nudging just 1 million users after 3 years with low engagement metrics. Differentiator? There isn’t one. Case closed, game over.

3) If you’re running anything with the words “mobile social network” in the title, lock yourself in a room with your team and work out how you’re going to save your business. That means innovate. Mobile is not a differentiator, its an inevitability.

At Le Web 07 I met with Christian, Founder of Skout. He had built a cool location based mobile social network (LoMoSoSo anyone?). By Q1 2008 when I met him in San Francisco, he’d already realised that competition was fierce and the concept was flawed — and that was before the gorillas had waded in. I implored him to change strategy (something which in fact he’d already started doing). He chose dating. It’s a smart move. Dating generates money-and lots of it. Proximity dating, or in fact “mobile dating” in general has never been done really well (even Mr Arrington agrees).

As a LBS start-up, you need to think about adding distinctive value for users; differentiating on location is an oxymoron. I know some of you are making money, some of the pure play mobile social networks are even profitable – great. But there’s an iceberg ahead and it may be bigger than it looks: just ask Captain Edward John Smith.

The future is relevance; the context of not only where I am but what I’m doing, who I am, where I will be. In summary: It’s about the data, stupid.

And that will be what I write about in my next post.

- – - – -

And I for one, Andrew, am very much looking forward to your next post. Thank you for taking the time.

Get Andrew on Twitter: @andrewjscott.

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  • Brilliant and insightful post....

    Totally on the money imho.

    Nice one Andrew and by the way Rummble rocks. Hard.
  • "3) If you’re running anything with the words “mobile social network” in the title, lock yourself in a room with your team and work out how you’re going to save your business"

    Not sure about this - maybe it's "mobile LOCATION-BASED social network" - i can't see this having any impact on the likes of itsmy.com, mocospace, heysan etc... There is a lot more to mobile than just location - it's only really the Silicon Valley companies (Brightkite, Loopt) that have got such a bee in their bonnet about mobile location.
  • Neilrob
    Good post Andrew and some great thoughts in there. but i have to agree with James here. All those running "mobile social networks" needn't hold their head in their hands with despair, as James said there's more to mobile than location. Just as an example, mobile phones of course have a built-in payments system, ready and waiting to go.

    I also think that while we're moving towards a time where we just say "there is no mobile internet, it's just the Internet", we're not there yet. Using your analogy of television and Internet, for quite a while after the colour TV came around, people still referred to it *as* a colour TV. It's only when that medium (colour tv) is taken for granted (or as standard) that it becomes "a TV".

    Just my thoughts.

    Looking forward to your next post.
  • @Neilrob and @James
    Thanks for your thoughts and the compliments! You're right that we're not there YET with it just being "internet". There are of course, also considerations of severe fragmentation of technology and platforms, cost of access and control. Imagine if the Internet had been owned worldwide by 400 Telecoms companies?

    The sentiment is right though; I'm talking about the future and the future can sometimes arrive abruptly. Imagine if Google DID buy up the UK's analogue TV spectrum in 2 years time and launch a free data service on such high bandwidth, to fuel its advertising business? Disruption is possible, even if it seems unlikely today.

    I'm building a business to last so I'm looking at 3-10 years time; some business strategy rightly serves near-term goals - revenue generating itsmy.com, mocospace and others being a great example. These companies do have to be careful though, longer term.

    Ignoring location on mobile would be a bit like ignoring broadband (thus video on the web) or even like the current social network leviathans ignoring mobile.

    Location will eventually affect nearly all mobile consumer services in some way - even for basic insights: geographical location (for language, proximity, social potential), context of the user (time of day, travelling, stationary, airborne?) etc. Nearly all of these come back to location or its associated benefits.

    Social networks will eventually die - we are social animals, so our software and our digital ecosystem will become inherently social across the board. The same will be eventually true for location.
  • South77
    "Imagine if Google DID buy up the UK's analogue TV spectrum in 2 years time and launch a free data service on such high bandwidth, to fuel its advertising business?"

    Right, that'll happen. Webheads persist with this notion for some reason.

    Good post otherwise.
  • Great thoughts and highly enjoyable post (I'm still laughing at the very true "fear and shagging both command strong emotions which can result in a buying decision").

    Keep up the good work with Rummble!
  • tomsoft
    Hello Andrew,

    One comment about CellID : I do not think that Google could release it for free as it's an agreement with operators. They could arge that they created also their own database, but the mix with the operator database might generate some legal trouble....

    (and disclosure: we are running OpenCellID.org ( http://www.opencellid.org ) the largest open source and free CellID user generated database.

    Regards
  • As per Paul's comment below - Google gathered this massive Cell-ID and WiFi database themselves - couldn't wait for the operators - so it's their resource to share.

    I've also posted my first look on Latitude over at http://www.andrewgrill.com/blog?p=1742
  • I agree with everything said here. Location is great but only if you couple it with context - i.e. you solve a problem. Well put Andrew.
  • @tomsoft There is no agreement with Operators - Google gathered the information itself. I hear the Operators are actually working on a plan to disrupt Google's information but as we all know, it takes them years to achieve anything.
  • Mike42
    Agreed - Knowing where Ben is isn't worth anything. Knowing where I am isn't worth anything. Hitting a button that says 'Pint Nearby' is - to me, Ben and the person selling the pint.

    Please Mr Industry, can I have my 'Pint nearby' button?
  • Ben
    Mate, did you just offer to buy me a pint? Thanks!
  • No he offered me a pint...
  • @tomsoft Paul is right; and also, although there have been rumours of operators thinking of scrambling things up to cause Google a problem, they wont. Why? Can you imagine how many subscribers they would annoy when their Google Mobile Maps stop working?

    @Mike42 You've just given my Rummble boys a fun idea - thanks :-)
  • Mike42
    Payment in CAMRA-approved units gratefully accepted.
  • Raj
    I really agree with you what you said in your article. anothe thing, I don't like any mobile application because I lost my phone , then I loose all my data and I'll always prefer a mobile web application like http://fonet.mobi which can be access either from mobile phone or desktop.
  • Amanda Stone
    One day, one fine day, you techie fiends are going to get used to doing a little user research, instead of just developing whatever stuff has become technologically possible.

    Ask a bunch of normal people "how would you like it if you could set your phone so that anyone in your network could find out where you were?"

    Go on. Maybe you know 2, 5, 10 normal people - go ask them.

    When the results come back - 9 out of 10 normal people saying "no thanks, duh!", which means the whole idea is an Epic Fail - you'll realise you don't need battle-hardened industry veterans like Andrew to impart such hard-earned wisdom. You can actually just talk to a few normal people, and they will tell you.

    Amanda
  • Mike42
    Amanda: 15 years ago, if you asked '2, 5, 10 normal people' if they would want to communicate with others, on a PHONE made for TALKING, using less than 160 characters, from a 26-letter alphabet typed out on 10 keys, how many would have said "no thanks - duh"?

    2 years ago, if you asked the same '2, 5, 10 normal people' if they would want to type 1-2 line updates of what they were up to throughout the day on a PC, already with EMAIL or BLOGGING apps, and publish them online for a bunch of friends, relatives, possibly colleagues, to read and comment back on, how many would have said "no thanks - duh"?

    Latitude is not about tracking. At all. Anyone who thinks it is has utterly missed the point. It's about Facilitating Serendipity.

    ...and anyone who thinks this information on your location isn't already out there via IP addresses, WiFi MAC addresses, Bluetooth devices etc is fooling themselves. The mechanisms to track people have been there for years. How do you think Google knows pretty much to the first 3 digits of your postcode where you are when doing a search?

    The controls Latitude give you are enough. I'm sold. The social issues raised by "Why are you hidden?" etc are the same as "Why didn't you Friend me?" - i.e. are non-issues. I've NEVER had issues from someone I declined for FB, Skype, LinkedIn, etc - and I've rejected HEAPS over the last few years.

    If you get Social Networks, you get why people might not want you in particular spheres (unless you are a sociopath). Same applies for location publishing.

    /m
  • Fantastic post Andrew. Really one of the most engaging things I've read in a while. Great stuff!

    What I'd like to add is really courtesy of the great thought leader Peter Cochrane, whom I had the pleasure of enjoying a morning coffee with recently.

    Peter's thinking also goes beyond where you are, to where your friends and even your "things" are; THEN applying this intelligently in connection applications. I've already added a note to self on RTM to blog about this in more detail in the near future :-)

    To give a couple of use cases:
    - Your TV, games console and stereo all understand where they are in relation to the each other, and the other items in flat. Suddenly the connections are broken. Either one/some/all of the items has been stolen, sold or lent to someone. A connected system would be able to detect this chance in state behaviour and begin processes to inform, action, remember and set prompts to your requirement - calling home if required. Ideally this would happen seamlessly, so eventually (just like social media) it will become a part of mainstream everyday life.
    - You leave your laptop at on the table whilst grabbing a coffee. Once your personal mobile device (phone or even watch) has moved over a certain distance the laptop locks and all data become inaccessible (that's if we're still storing any data locally at this point!!). Someone does a runner with the laptop - it's useless.
    - Worried parents let their 16 year old daughter hit the town for the first time on a Friday night. They agree her boundaries and route home, which are sketched onto an online map. If she step outside the geo-fence or proximity to friends the relevant alerts kick into action...

    There are infinite more examples, however "The Sociology of Things" is an fascinating concept (especially since it is us humans that give "things" life) that will also build upon the commoditised location frameworks as they mature.
  • Mike42
    Was with you there until the parent/teen thing - H-U-G-E FAIL of a business model there, centered around mistrust and paranoia.

    Problem is, arrogant VC idiot control freaks yet to spawn their own kids envisage themselves tight-leashing their offspring, so keep giving other idiot control freaks money to launch products like GPS watches and the like. Normal people recognise this sort of thing for the BS it rightly is.

    Now, should the teen find themselves in trouble, there's absolutely nothing wrong with her being able to fire up an app like GMaps with Latitude, and showing Dad where she is so he can come get her / change the tyre / drop off a change of clothes. But the control, the publishing, is firmly in the teen's hands. The option is there, if she needs to use it. She can find her friends, if she wants to. she can share with others - if she wants to.

    The kids will get Latitude and its implications / mechanisms much quicker than their parents. that's Google's play here - and it's long term.

    /m
  • Amen. Location is a tool in the toolbox. A potential enabler of a whole load of exciting applications, but nothing remarkable by itelf.
  • tomsoft
    @andrew and others: that was my initial feeling too (that Google created the database by themself), but that's not what some operators are saying. Some says that Google are connected to their backend to get accurate CellID positionning, and that they even get better accuracy because they (the operator) upgraded their positionning server.

    But i agree that this operator claim seems to me sometime hard to belive because:
    - the connection is always going between google map and google server, and never ask a something to a positionning server
    - There is no reference to the operators in the commercial conditions of the applications.

    But even, they could have a direct connection on the backend side, especially if the operator decorate request coming from the mobile with some extra information, but this is hard to verify.
  • Interesting to see these 'social' components falling into place for Google. First FriendConnect, and now Latitude. Add that to the existing Gmail, GTalk, GoogleApps, GrandCentral etc., and you have a fiersome platform with a ready-made user base to boot.
  • Peter F
    you've nailed it! there is space for only one giant LBS hub and that hug will be Google. All these other social nets are doomed.

    Loopt's model is broken but I hear their app is being used as gay hookup app. As for location dating, that's a weird one. Men seem to be a lot more promiscuous so gay dating could be a niche you could go after.
  • It's simple: Location is a tool not a product
  • Good post.
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